My magic bean stock. I had an audition at circus circus got the job on the spot. After cutting loose a little. As a mason I'm laying bricks for fionas site. Was interviewed by the FBI couple days back. Started a motorcycle gang with J Love. Caught up now? also won 250K gambling.

Is this a pseudonym of that other nut-case?

transparency goes well with desperation

how is this shit relevant?

makes sense, huh?

I love how its all right there.

restrain "it", for the love of all things sacred.

i miss that old familiar kind sacred sanctuary.

for the close minded, sacred does, in fact have a meaning not pertaining to religion. you can't be serious.

to me, it means "safe"

I've devoted my time to a sacred shrine. Life can be the Pitts. please remember to pick up after your dog. no one wants to step in that sh*t. Also read a book about narcolepsy. It's no joke. say hi to Jen for me, ok?

http://www.aware.org/stalking/stalkgeninfo.shtml


This is a good reference site - not to be taken lightly.

(and I'm a pretty free and easy going person when it comes to stuff like this).

john got busted for trying to sell black market viagra outside of the 7-11 then he pawned his sister's old banana seat bicycle after someone stole his daydream Nation CD and replaced it with the spice girls (this was after he tried hotknifing some hash but it turns out it was refried molasses mixed with motor oil]. don't ask him about it though, he gets upset. i

??!??!?!?!?!?!

like seriously - is this for real? or a joke? I can't make heads or tails of this board anymore..why isn't it shut down, seriously? Is this supposed to be funny? Hey - i'm down with stoner humour - but seriously...time to go to rehab, because this is a case of seriously jelly-brain.
I always feel like I'm hallucinating reading this site.

Liz Phair needs to put a fucking album out already. Fuck.

Calm yourselves

Lucky's a fucking troll, just ignore him, he never makes any sense, but he's harmless.

Shmoopy's just joining in on the fun. Because, really, why not??

I agree with Dan. This forum hasn't been worth a shit since '05. Nothing against any of the other forum members, it's just that it REALLY gets old to keep on checking in on this place for some relevent Liz news or something about this fucking new album, if it EVER gets released, and to keep on getting zero, zilch!! Time to face reality here. Liz's career may be over and you know what, I really don't think she or ATO gives a fuck. I'm thinking the re-release of EIG was a last ditch effort for Liz to make some money and maybe revive her career. Well it seems like Liz doesn't have "it" anymore. The new stuff must be a huge disappointment for ATO or SOMETHING would have been released by now. If ATO doesn't like it, it must be really bad! I'm done! This waiting on Liz really is getting to be bullshit and I'm fucking tired of waiting! She's been this way her whole career and I honestly believe it has absolutely cost her what could have been a hugely successful, rock and roll hall of fame, multiple Grammy winning career. She's a classic alright, a classic slacker!! So much talent with so very little to show for it. She really could have been, IMHO, the female Dylan. I really do wish her the best and hope that this new album does someday get released, I just seriously have my doubts that it ever will. If and when it does get released, I'll crawl on back here to voice an opinion I guess. I've been hanging here since the old board in '03 and will return IF this board is still here. Doubt it has much more time left though. Good bye Liz and LPF, I've waited around too long as it is. Signed, TIRED OF FUCKING WAITING!, XRay

Well, that was a buzzkill.

I'm not saying your a chubby chaser but a little birdie told me that someone has a bun in the oven. let me know if you still want a copy of that Oprah &Gayle sex tape-elevate me, later
lets skype

Maybe she doesn't make music in reply to supply and demand. Maybe, just maybe, music is a personal thing and words even more so. Maybe she doesn't want to sell anything. Like, ever. Sharing is one thing, but selling a whole nother thing.

I don't know. Its a message board and she is a girl with a guitar.

Who cares, anyways.

True. Perhaps. Maybe she doesn't. want to sell anything.
Although - if she doesn't want to sell anything, she wouldn't be pimping herself out to banana republic. i know - girl's gotta make a living. but...if that's all she is - cool.
I'm willing to let go and just be okay with her being nothing more than "that girl".
Disappointing...but. well. yeah.

But it's the promise... "I promise guys...no slick production...it'll be flawed...and layered and beautiful... they just gave me a budget and said go make music...it's the first time i've felt creative in years..."

again - she doesn't owe us. anything. but - that's quite a carrot she's dangling. and fans only care - because we care! it's testament to how devoted we are. she's telling us: "The good stuff is coming...I promise..." and then...(crickets chirping) and some news about a shitty producer climbing on board.

I'm not going to judge the album until i hear it...but...we waited for five years, patiently - last time, between White Chocolate...and look what we got.

The self-titled was not a product from a girl who doesn't want to sell anything. that record was all about selling something. art was the last thing there, save for a few of the tracks written years earlier. even the "good ones" on the album...*fart fart fart*

LOL!. I just burst out laughing for real.

Oddly enough - i loaded a shite load of Liz mp3's into my iPod for my walks to work each day. they take me back, i have to admit.

I say we page Mister Jason Long. if anyone can revive liz mania the right way..it's him.

And these adbots with the "i heard your pregnant belly pint glass of whiskey was a skype meter in lawrence fishburn's bung hole" - it's dumb. i'm currently in the process of blocking anyone who does that shite.

suck it adbots!

and liz...come back...please...(kate winslet in titanic voice): Come baaack...come baaaaack...

yeah the Banana Republic thing threw me for a loop, too. i would keep my music life separate, but that's just me.

I'm one broke ass bitch. I can't shop there. I love H&M, though.

I really don't know what I can do. I share the same frustration that almost everyone else is feeling.

I finally got around to picking up Whip-Smart and whitechocolatespaceegg on vinyl recently and have been revisiting those albums. Songs like "Nashville", "May Queen" and "Headache" are a testament to Liz's gifts as a songwriter. I can't think of anyone else who could have written them.

Revisiting those albums has had me looking forward to Liz's new record, especially in light of her claims that she hasn't felt so creative in years. I also thought she was at the top of her game when I saw her in Chicago last June -- both her vocals and guitar playing were incredible. For the first time in a long time, Liz didn't let the other musicians get in her way; they were there to support her, not mask her own talents.

I've been checking the mailing list and this message board, as well as the usual sites (Mesmerizing, ATO, Pitchfork) almost every day for any news about the new album. Even if Liz were to finish the album tomorrow, there's usually a three-month period between when an album is finished and when it's released. By then, it will be almost a year after it was originally supposed to come out.

I keep telling myself the wait was worth it for whitechocolatespaceegg... But then again, we waited just as long for the self-titled album.

I don't mind the self-titled album and Somebody's Miracle for what they are, but after everything Liz has claimed about the new album, I can't help but expect more this time. I'm not sure what to make of the news that Jeff Trott and John Alagia are now working on the record. Based on their roster, ATO doesn't seem like the type of label to force its artists to work with the hitmakers du jour. I have to wonder if it was Liz's idea. She hasn't produced an album entirely on her own before; maybe she wasn't satisfied with the results. I know she wasn't happy with how Somebody's Miracle turned out, but she must like Alagia. I can't see her working with him willingly otherwise.

I know she's still capable of writing phenomenal songs; the comeandgetit EP certainly bears that out. If she had turned in an album to ATO with songs of the same caliber as "Jeremy Engle", I really can't see how they would have rejected it. It would have done a lot to restore her critical standing and would have easily sold 200,000 -- which is more than most of the other artists on ATO's roster sell. It would have been a profitable album for both Liz and the label.

I don't mind Trott's work with Sheryl Crow; although her more recent work has been lacking, The Globe Sessions and her self-titled album are both pretty good mainstream albums, accessible but distinct. Maybe that's Liz's goal this time around -- to make an album that is more accessible than her first three, but more creative than her last two and that has her personality intact. If Liz still wants to make pop records (which is a possibility), that's probably the best case scenario.

Part of why I liked Liz so much to begin with was how she sounded unlike anyone else -- no one else wrote lyrics or chord progressions or played guitar like she did. I think I would have liked the last two albums more if she had been able to bring more of those elements to them; instead, they sounded fairly anonymous at times. I'm not totally adverse to pop -- I have a total soft spot for Lily Allen, for example. Part of why I enjoy her albums so much is that you can't mistake any of Lily's songs for anyone else. They're undeniably hers. I didn't feel that way about some of the songs from Liz's last two albums. "Everything to Me" seemed like it was aiming to be like Sheryl Crow's cover of "The First Cut Is the Deepest", "Why Can't I?" sounded like it wanted to be Avril Lavigne's "Complicated", etc.

I really hope this doesn't come across as Liz-bashing at all, because that's not my intention. She's just capable of making better albums and I really hope the new one lives up to that potential. As a songwriter, she's in the same league as Elvis Costello and Joni Mitchell and I hope she makes a record that will remind people of that.

I didn't realize this post would be so long-winded when I started writing it. Back to lurking now...

One more thought: If Liz still wants to work with outside producers, she should give Britt Daniel a call. I think that would be a great pairing.

liz, are you reading this? time to stop hanging out with the whores from bev hills 90210 and make music in your bedroom.

Ok why is everyone making this an attack on Liz? I'm standing behind this being a label issue. She has been pretty vocal about not liking the way SM turned out, going so far as to call it a "fucking compromise disaster," and complained that John Alagia took her guitar parts out of the mix. Why then would she work with him again? After rewatching that silly video on her myspace page where she proudly claims (through the Morpheus character) to be "writing her own songs and producing her own music," I don't think this delay is her choice.

My intention was not to attack Liz, but I'm still not 100% convinced that this is a label issue. Seriously, have you listened to any of the other artists and bands signed to ATO? As I mentioned in my earlier post, if she could put out an album that would sell only 200,000 copies, she'd have already outsold almost every other artist or band on ATO's roster. Radiohead would be one of the few exceptions, but they're not even directly signed to the label; they only have a distribution deal with ATO.

Liz may have referred to Somebody's Miracle as being a "fucking compromise disaster", but that may have had more to do with Capitol not allowing her to finish the album she wanted to make (a song-by-song response to Songs in the Key of Life) than her issues with any particular producer. As for her complaints about John Alagia taking her guitar parts out of the mix, she still played far more guitar on the album than on the self-titled, and she's said that every producer she's worked with has been the same way -- except for Brad Wood. So, that's not specific to Alagia; that would also include Michael Penn, The Matrix, Jim Ellison, Jason Chasko, Scott Litt, R. Walt Vincent and John Shanks.

i agree - i never want to attack liz either. it's frustrating though...the juliana hatfield album title "Become what you are" comes to mind... I wish she could just BECOME - like Jase said - the Elvis Costello...the Lucinda Williams...the Matthew Sweet...the Bob Dylan...that she COULD be.
it always seems there are so many stipulations with Liz...
part of it seems to be the label...and part of it seems to be herself.
since the beginning, she's always been comparing hersellf to others...and like Jase said - the beauty straight from the beginning was that she sounded like no one else.

I was at the same liz show in Chicago - and very true - it was her: 100%.
It was a brilliant performance. her best work has always been the stripped stuff.
dear god can you imagine "Daniel Lanois is now on board."
LOL! Sorry...couldn't resist.
but that's the problem...I think she gets sucked into shit...
i don't know if it's an insecurity thing...or an EGO thing.
it's like, she's trying to make these GIGANTIC, stadium-sized songs...and - she's not a stadium sized artist.
Her talent is far beyond that - as a guitar player, song-writer and vocalist.
I don't think Bob Dylan or Costello are "stadium sized" performers either. I've seen both in stadiums - and it's sucked.
It's like - the dressing is wrong...when they are in their element, they're at their best.

i too have been dipping back into the back catalogue of WCSE era stuff...even throwing some of the songs from Somebody's MIracle in the mix - to help warm me up...it's gotten me pumped up.
i just hope she doesnt' think BEING on Dave Matthew's label is going to MAKE HER Dave Matthews.
she's not capable of being that...thank god.

I love the Breeders take on music. i was watching a documentary w/ the Deal twins, and Kim said something like: "We're just not going to sound like other bands...that's just us..." and Kelley added in a "thank god..."
they're not going to be superstars. but they know what they have: This dripping, insanely cool sound, and a nice, strong cluster of fans who hang on every note that pours out of kim's guitar.

the impact liz made on us - is evident - and contrary to what i thought in 2003 - i now think she is capable of getting back to that level again...

really though...with all the hype and expectation....i wonder if we will be able to judge the album fairly...?

i'm going to have to...like, meditate, smoke a joint, clear my mind and throw the album on...sprawled on my bed, flipping through the CD inlay, with an open mind...1993-style...

*fingers crossed*

anyone know jeff trott's email?
just sayin'.

Liz, I think we could make beautiful music together in your bedroom.

The guitar stuff is personal pride, a red-herring, not substance. Liz wouldn't get hired or asked to play on any record other than her own. It's true of Dylan, too. I like her EIG playing becasue it fits the vibe, but it's not going to make a music career for her.

Her stylish use of the guitar is one of the most important elements in her music. one of the main reasons that most of her music after whip-smart was not as good as eig and ws is that they tried to hide the real liz behind too much production and vocal-coaching, making her normal. she pours so much soul into her guitarplaying. it has nothing to do with personal pride but with retaining some soul in her music. other musicans on her albums don't feel the music. they're just doimg their jobs. i think she should produce her music herself. girlysound is one of her best, even though its just her and her guitar on a tape.

XRay- That was uncool.

DanMacDonald- Liz is a person, you know. She's also a single mother with a child. Any real fan should see and understand that. This goes out to all of you who are acting so childish. Liz didn't even want to be a professional musician in the first place. It wasn't a plan. And now that she is, we think she's amazing, sure, and we didn't exactly appreciate her going poppy, but everyone wants to try new things now and then, or gets forced to. I can't tell which one it was, but that's not the point. The point is, Liz is Liz. Liz isn't Bob Dylan or (ew) Matthew Sweet. She has insecurities as a musician, but can you blame her? It's a difficult world in the music industry.

But honestly, I don't really care what she does at this point. I mean, I do, I'll always be a fan of hers, but I'm pretty much fine with whatever she wants to do. She's also said before that she's all about trying new things, so it doesn't surprise me that she's sticking her music in the fashion world (Banana Republic) or in overpopulated TV shows (90210). She should be allowed to do whatever she wants, and everyone should be okay with that.

Ok, no hate mail, please. I placed my two cents.

Hey no hate mail here. I'm not going to go and call you "CHILDISH" for giving your two cents either. Nor am i going to question whether or not you are a "real" fan...however, I will defend you questioning whether or not i am a "real" fan. Yeah - i get it - money money money - we all have the right to sell out.
But guess what? Courtney Love (another single mom) said it best when she said: "Selling out means - there are NO MORE TICKETS AT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN."
Yeah. That's selling out. Big bucks. Big crowds. Big money.
If liz is going to sell out - i wish her all the best.
However - i don't think this whole "selling out" thing is working money-wise.

It's made her the laughing stock of her old school fans - and the new school fans - many of them discarded her for Katy Perry.
Selling out? She didn't sell out.
She got ripped off. Whether it was a shitty move on her part - or a sleazy contract with a big record label...i don't think it worked out the way it was supposed to.
And THAT - as a fan - makes me angry.

Either WE got duped - or SHE got duped.
Whatever.

I am a real fan. I wouldn't be checking this message board DAILY - posting on the liz phair message board if i wasn't a real fan - hoping for some shred of SOMETHING - whether I like it or not. I know she's a person, for christ sake. Don't give me that line.
I've been a hardcore fan since 1993 and I've NEVER stopped.

I'm placing my 2 cents. And yes - thank you CoolChick for the dead horse thing. I'll be the first to admit, i've beaten said horse far too long for far too many years - the poor horse...fuck - i'm even a vegetarian.
i don't beat horses.

but...this particular horse - i have a lot invested in... many many years of people telling me "she can't hold a note, she can't sing, she can't write, she can't play" - always - ALWAYS to which i responded: "Wrong. Wrong. Wrong."

Now - I don't feel comfortable saying "wrong" - when people say "What a shitty song."
Because I am a hardcore fan - but i'm not a blind, zombie fan.

Liz proved in Chicago - almost a year ago today - that she has it. That she can play. That she can sing. That she doesn't give a fuck.
Most importantly: That she's talented.

I'm not asking her to go back in a machine and write songs like she was a 21 year old pot head - although in a fantasy world - that would be nice.
I'm just WISHING - as a true fan - of her as an artist - of her style, of her uniqueness - to NOT write songs as if she was a 21 year old diet coke head.

There are smart ways to make a living writing pop songs for the teen generation. Linda Perry nailed that. to a t.
Am i fan of Linda Perry songs?
Not anymore. Do i respect her?
More than EVER before.

I'm not saying i do not respect liz. i have nothing but respect for that woman - and she can do whatever she wants.
but this is a message board. where people like me - and people such as yourself can "place our two cents".

And a real fan?

Please, if you will - offer me your definition of a "real fan"?

an indie snob who refuses to wake up from 1993?
a 12 year old who discovered her because she liked her avril-lavigne esque gloves??

Both are real fans, no?

She's not bob dylan...THANK GOD.
And she's not Avril lavigne either.

Thank god.

She's liz. and I've gushed about her for years and years and years.
It's nothing personal. It's her work.

I liked Augusten Burroughs books for a long time.
Wolf at the Table...not so much. That was his last book.
Total change in style. the humour that i fell in love with - gone.

It's nothing personal. I know he's a person. He's a human. He's a partnered gay man trying to make a living and doing it.
But his book?
If i'm entitled to share my two cents on how much i love him - and god knows i've beat that "dead horse" with liz year after year - with essays, blogs, rants, emails, postings, mix tapes, cd-gifts - all over how FANTASTIC she is...well shit...am i not equally entitled to get a discussion going about the current crumb of bread she's tossed our way since 2007's "Perfect Misfit"?

Would you rather we sit and watch this message board turn into a playground for adbots slinging cell phones and free porn?
Maybe a nice singles chat line? Or even better - some nonsensical string of idiotic sentences (kind of what this rant is starting to become)?

We're talking. Discussion. Different strokes. Different folks.

But please...the one thing I ask - don't ever doubt me on whether or not I'm a "real" fan.

I'm being honest. That's as real as I can get, anymore.

Phair enough.
Dan

*beat beat beat beat beat* on that dead horse!!

HOLY SHIT!!!

I beat the damn thing so hard - wouldn't you know it! The fucker up and ran away!

Who knew?

Okay, so you do have a point there, and I understand you clearer. Also, I wasn't saying you're not a real fan, all of that wasn't completely directed at you, it was directed at anyone who happened to read it, including you. Anyone on here who comes more oflen than not and looks around for stuff about her is crazy. In the good way. That includes me.

I also want to point out that the childish comment was meant more like...to anyone who is trying to force crap out of her that isn't in her anymore. You know? People that keep asking for the Liz of '93 in present-day 2009. I thought that you were like that before your little rant. So I apologize to you for that. Truce?

And sorry coolchick, I'll leave the horse alone. For now. I'm a vegetarian, too, after all. It's back up.


Click to view attachment

Please do not assume that just because someone expresses disappointment with the quality of Liz's post-90's output that they do not want her to grow or evolve as an artist.
And I mean, really, let's put things into context here:

Liz is finally free from the constraints of a major label, has reissued her most acclaimed album and tells Billboard that she's feeling creative for the first time in 15 years. We're told there will be a new album in the fall. This doesn't happen. Silence. We hear that she is working with the same guys who produced Somebody's Miracle (Liz Phair [2008]: "Somebody's Miracle was a funny record, because I liked a lot of the songs a lot, but the production wasn't my favorite") Silence. Long wait.
And then we get "faith & tenderness". So, yeah, um, bit of a bummer, dude.

Bottom line is I think we're all rooting for Liz. We want to see her make an awesome record, we want to see her get good reviews, we want her to make shitloads of money. Being a fan does not mean that we love everything that our favorite musician puts out. I'm a huge fan of PJ Harvey, but have been underwhelmed by her last 2 albums (haven't listened to the new John Parish collab). Still, here's an artist who really has evolved, and who doesn't repeat the same formula over and over and I can appreciate that. So for all this talk about how Liz is not the same person-we're not expecting "Exile: Part 2", but for fuck's sake we do not want another Somebody's Miracle, either.

btw, Dan, I'm not too crazy about the last 2 Breeders albums, either. (The Fate To Fatal EP is pretty rad, though)

That's not completely true, some people are hoping for another Exile...and I don't think that's fair. No one can do the exact same thing in the exact same way two times in a row and expect everyone to like it. And those people don't seem to get that.

I still haven't heard Faith and Tenderness, but no one else on here seems to have given it rave reviews, so I'm not exactly looking forward to listening to it.

IMO, it doesn't matter what Liz releases good, bad, or average, somebody on here will rip it to shreds and it's almost surely guaranteed that some critics out there will bash ANYTHING she puts out. The poor woman can't please anybody it seems. She's a pinata to most everyone these days including her so-called fans. One last thing , as far as 'Faith And Tenderness' goes, I also agree that the song is pretty MOR and most certainly NOT an earth shattering return to form for Liz, but IMO, its not the piece of shit tune that some on hear have made it out to be either. Certainly not the embarrassment that alot of 'Liz Phair" and some of SM were. My two cents.

ABSOLUTELY - truce!

I think the thing here is that it's not like we're really acting like some of Elvis Costello's fans, who did criticise him for growing as an artist.

I think Liz may truly be lacking inspiration or even maybe even an idea how to even go about this album at all despite having recorded some sessions for it. On the one hand, she could turn out more AOR or she could do something her old fans would like, or grow to merge the two - if that's even possible.

And god, even though I mentioned how Elvis Costello was attacked by some critics or fans by not just continuing to make 2 minute pop grenades for his entire career, and I'd want her to make music more like her earlier work than her later work, and saying the Jeremy Engel EP was great and a return to form just isn't cutting it anymore.

I don't even know if the Exile shows really illustrated anything other than that she could faithfully play and sing the songs still. It's bloody worrying.

Maybe she has run out of artistry. Whatever she produces none of us are going to be happy. Maybe that's what's holding her up...


Having started to learn pro tools I appreciate Kim Deal's stance about not using producers who use it more and more.


At least there was some news last year. As before the Exile stunt, we've got no news other than stuff we don't want to really know about. I feel sorry for new members to the site quite frankly. I mean I wouldn't want to discover Liz's back catalogue for the first time in this climate.

I only check the site once a week or couple of weeks at the most anymore. I'm seriously getting bored people. I was thinking of upping some old shows. Maybe that'll help. I've got some CDRs bought off of ebay from years ago when I was completely obsessed with her that might paper over the angst for a bit because I think we all know, we need something...

UP Away!

Agree with baudrillard.

I feel like if it wasn't for the Exile re-issue last year I would have given up on Liz by now.

Regardless of what she actually churns out, Liz (and/or ATO) haven't even tried to excite or engage her fans. Practically no news or updates for almost a year. Still no official site. It is like they're asking us to forget about her.