Here's a review of Liz's Seattle show at the Showbox, 10/7/08:

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/2008...at_showbo_1.php

Thanks !

the show was fantastic, she had incredible energy and it was a real treat to hear a lot of the underplayed exile songs ("canary" "shatter" and a polished "explain it to me" versus the impromptu acoustic one i heard the last time i saw her) plus all the great rockers... just so much fun. she asked for a volunteer to do the second vocal on 'flower' and a girl from the front row took her up on it. my friend took a zillion pictures from the front, i'll encourage her to post them. grabbed the set list, has all of her guitars + effects instructions ("duo, water" "tele, rock"). had to split 2 songs into the encore ("chopsticks" "supernova") to catch the deerhoof gig but i guess she did 'polyester bride' as well, anything else?

Umm, would you like really, really, post the guitar related comments from what you picked up if it's not too much of a burden? (Scan if easy(ier)?) Wonder if it's just for her or for the lead guitarist, too. There are some of us that are really into that, and I'm about the least of them. Some others might be too busy foaming at the mouth right now to post.

Thanks

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kidraerae/2614941674/

Here's a picture of a setlist from one of the shows back in June.

Cool, thanks, Jeremy. What a weird commentary system.

Re: our brief exchange a few days ago about FnR tab--I don't think you replied back to me.

On that bridge part--per Vic Theatre utube vid, she plays an open E and then an A--not like she usually fingers it but with a barre from her 2nd longest finger. Then back to E, then to the thing you wrote about.

I think--sound--it's an 007070 not the 005050. That 007070 can be/is part of a D from that harmony scale that I referred to. In particular, it has a D7 character. As a chord prog. E > A, Then E > D(7) makes sense with a D(7) to end on. Kinda weird to then begin again on a D, but not unheard of esp. for Liz. Though a B(or B7) makes more sense, traditionally. But those things from that harmony scale, if played open, can fit multiple chords.

On the Vic Theatre vid, it looks like she's further down than 5th fret--but who knows? If there's a bass or another guitar what she does could get lost in the mix. Try doing it as the 007070 shape and then as just some sort of a D or D7 to fit the overall sound. The 005050, as you said, doesn't sound right.

Curious to know what your ear picks up.

Yeah, if you watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPnpu-uGTo

(Chicago, this past June)

she definitely does the 007070, like you suggested. Skip ahead to 2:42 to see the first instance of it and watch the last pre-chorus at the end of the song for an even better view of it. I think when she explained the shape to me (she described it as, "What's that A chord that doesn't have the middle finger?") she just got the position on the fretboard wrong -- not a mistake out of the realm of possibility, considering it's Liz.

But to complicate matters, watch the video from the 1995 solo tour (the holy grail of Liz video bootlegs and by far the best way to confirm or deny anyone's attempt at a Liz Phair TAB), and you'll see she's not up nearly as high on the fretboard. The chord in question looks more like 005053 (there's no denying her first finger is fretting at least the high E string at the 3rd fret), which is nearly identical in voicing to 007080, if only that's what she was playing now instead of 007070. For the old video, search for "fuck and run 1995" on YouTube, you can't miss it. I don't know, do you prefer learning how the songs were originally played, or how she plays them now? I know, for me, whenever I pick up the guitar to play a Liz Phair song, I go with the original tunings and the original fingerings. You'll never get me to play "Mesmerizing" like she does now (the chord at the end of the intro/chorus progression is completely different and far less funky than the original 10 10 9 0 x x, and I can't not play that extra 55777X D chord before the 355400 in the middle of said progression). Also, too, I have no idea how she's playing "Strange Loop" these days, I only know that it sounds damn close to the original without using nearly as many bizarre fingerings as the original.

Have you tried to play "Fuck & Run" along with the record? I'm terribly lazy when it comes to doing that; I much prefer a visual or nothing at all. I find rewinding a CD to be extremely tedious, and I don't even have a stereo anymore, just a CD walkman with headphones, so it's a drag, man.

i just wanted to say thanks to the both of you for such an interesting discussion. i'll freely admit i don't know a whole lot about it, but it is fascinating nonetheless and i want to learn as much as i can.

[quote name='JeremyEngle' date='Oct 15 2008, 07:21 PM' post='156216']
Yeah, if you watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPnpu-uGTo

(Chicago, this past June)

she definitely does the 007070, like you suggested......she just got the position on the fretboard wrong -- not a mistake out of the realm of possibility, considering it's Liz.

Cool. I hadn't seen any other vid except the Seattle one, so I had done it off the sound from some recording. I figured she screwed up recalling the fret. (Apologies Liz, we all do it). That 007070 fits from a D; play the barre D on the fifth fret and you get the two fingers on 7. It’s those two fingers that are most important with all of this—that harmony scale that I referred to.

“But to complicate matters, watch the video from the 1995 solo tour ....you'll see she's not up nearly as high on the fret board. The chord in question looks more like 005053 (there's no denying her first finger is fretting at least the high E string at the 3rd fret)”

What it looks and sounds like to me is if you make an open C, slide it up 3 frets and then add the G note on the high e = 054033. That's that D with G added on 3rd fret high E string. Adding a G note is suspending the 4th. With the open G string xxx0xx, you’ve already suspended the 4th, so it’s just adding another G notes.

So as strings you get: Not played (6th string) ; D (5th), F# (4th), G (3rd ) D (2nd) G (1st).

Or it could be 054053. Take that open C shape up 2frets so as a D. Using the B string on 5 rather than on 3—what’s normal for that C shape—gives you an “add9”—add another E to the mix, i.e., xxxx5x is the high E.

So as strings you get: Not played (6th string) ; D (5th), F# (4th), G (3rd ) E (2nd) G (1st).

You can also make it a 7th by doing some version of 0545x3—do what you think with B string.

Those are 3 variations of D that might fit her fingering—as best I can make it out, that also could fit sonically. I don’t think it’s the 7th.

Since the 007070 can comes from a D, it makes sense to me that what she does from ’95 is a version of the D I’m talking about. Having her finger on 3rd fret first string makes it easy to have it on 2nd string 3rd fret, too. That’s my best guess. I’m convinced that it’s some sort of D given both versions we’ve talked about.

It’s been years since I’ve sat and worked on other people’s songs—just when it hits me or there’s some reason. As I said, I usu just jam along with lead. I couldn’t tell you how to play anything other than Never Said—and now FnR. Used to know a few more years ago. I can tell you that the first chord on Closer to You is D, that it goes to F# and G, and that the key is D. Except for the bridge goes D C G. That’s it re: current knowledge. You know far more about this than I do.

I don’t play much these days. Quit for about 4 years. Haven’t touched my electric in 5 years.

WLY: You'll be getting an invoice in Canadian dollars. Kidding. Cool to hear that you like reading this stuff.

Thanks for the response, jackstpaul.

But man, I sincerely do not hear the x54... in the video from '95. It gives the chord a completely different character from what it actually sounds like. Liz said, "It's kind of dissonant," which it is, the way she plays it now and the way it was played in days of yore. I think if it looks like x54etc., what you're actually seeing is her 2nd finger hovering above the fretboard; those notes on the 5th & 4th strings give the chord a more folk-y sound than what is actually played, for lack of a better word. I should confess that I know very little about music theory, and even less about scales, but I do know the sound of the elusive "Fuck & Run" chord pretty well.

Speaking of music theory, there was a young dude* standing with me in the small throng of fans that night when Liz & I talked rock, and he shouted out to us as we were struggling through our brief guitar lesson: "It's a suspended 4th!" Which, neatly, you highlighted in your post.

But for the love of all that is good and kind of dissonant, listen again to the song, and listen to the x54 in your proposed chord (which wouldn't sound out of place in "Divorce Song"). It's not the same thing, I swear. Compare it to 007070. There's just no way.

*That young dude also shouted to Liz as we were walking away from her, "Dance of the Seven Veils! Best song ever!" I wish he were among us. I'd appreciate his input and would dig chatting about his favorite song, as I have pretty song feelings about it (and its chords), too.

Actually, I didn't try out this chord of yours before I responded. Now I have, and it sounds a lot to closer to what I think I hear. Although I'm still not quite sold on the bottom half (054).

What exactly didn't you like about my proposed 005053?

cool. let me know where to send it. i also have picked up the old electric in a good while. i used to play steady, but now it's once in a blue moon.

You take this way more seriously than I do.

To put it into words is difficult b/c it just doesn't sound right, but since you asked it comes to mind:

It doesn't have the bass sound that the versions of 054--but the 054 can be an 055, which is a sus4 of that D chord (based on open C)--do. That gives you the xx5 you posit. What you've ID'd doesn't sound like a D, enough. It's got high but not low, not enough D sound. 05 for sure.

If you look (not my fav. way to interpret how to play) it looks for sure like she's doing something of a variation on the C open moved up 2 frets.

I can’t decide amongst the variations--and there could be another one that she plays, but I’m certain on the open C shape with the G on 1st string added as you pointed out.

In between that D on 5th string and that G is debatable, but it's in there somewhere. The 005053 that you suggest works with what I say if you just add the x5 to be x55053. Your thing plus a D bass. Works for me. But having it be xx5 uses up the pinky, not leaving it avail to play the xxxx5x note. Hence, x54033 or x55033 or (less likely) 054053 as possibilities, too.

Any of the things with the D in the bass work; the rest is just color and not a game-changer sonically in my mind. D-something is the chord. What about full band versions? I'd bet it sounds like a D and that's the real key. If you're with a band you're not necessari;ly going to play a chord vocing you're play as one guitar. The rest of it cna fill in some of the color that one guaitr needs to do. For her band, the bass player must go to D and the other guitar goes to some type of D chord. Except Dino, who went to who knows where. He's a great guitarist, actually.

I like going over the theory, though. I haven’t had a musical partner in more than a decade to have these discussions with.

Yeah, I finished some home recording projects that burned me out, and then went thru some med problems a few years ago and just never got into it again.

About 15 mos ago I bought a new acoustic--Gibson Songwriter deluxe cutaway--and started playing again after 4 years. Then hurt my hand in May. Wasn't back to full form before that, so I'll have to get my strength back and re-learn a fair amount.

Want to do some recording of my stuff again, not sure which to do, but I have 5 CDs—two of instrumentals—of material ready to go.

Depression—self-explanatory “concept” album, Aftermath--“concept” album about the literal aftermath of the suicide of my best friend and musical partner (12 years to finish writing all the songs). Hers—a collection of various songs written about women over the years without consistent theme. One Acoustic One would be an instrumental album using one acoustic guitar track for each song—almost all originals. One Acoustic Two would be more of the same.

Of the two CDs I finished, one is about a relationship I ended (badly) and the ensuing massive regret later when I realized I still was in love with her and had let my feelings for her sabotage my life, sort of. I recorded barebones—usu. one acoustic guitar and vocal—demos. I call it The Mary Demos. 14 songs. I’d love to have a woman write the female side of things, in the generic sense without needing to have been or known the experience of “Mary.”

Foremost I’m a lyricist, then a songwriter, then a guitarist. Not really a singer. Hence my first CD, a 1-man band thing called In Search of Singer slapping together various things I recorded after my friend (who played rhythm and did all the singing) died, needing to sing for the first time in my life since he wasn’t around.

Really need some people to help to do all of the material right, but I don’t have anyone around these days to jam with, let alone who’ll just work on my material.

So, I’m sitting on a load of stuff and don’t know where to begin. Yikes.

same here. with the lyricist thing anyway. i haven't committed anything to tape. i'm not that far along or that advanced. i just occasionally putter around on the electric guitar when i feel mood or melody hit. writing happens a lot less too, but it happens more than playing.

wow, i can't believe my post spurred all this! jackstpaul, your last post shocked me in that i find myself in virtually the same position after rather similar situations and circumstance. interesting. i have no idea what kind of advice to give--i keep buying new gear and better recording units and i just don't know where to start so i don't start anywhere. i think having a perfectionist nature is not a good quality for a productive artist...


all the liz gtr talk is cool too! that set list is a bit different from the one i snagged, which i will post soon...

Hey Stuck welcome.

What equipment do you use? I'm about to buy. I've been using CoolEdit Pro2.1a since 2003. Couldn't upgrade to AA since I was using WinMe. Haven’t done fresh recording since 2004--just restoration, edits, etc. Just got Vista and an up-to date Dell.

I think I'm going to buy Cubase LE. Decided against Pro Tools. LE is the cheaper version of Cubase, and you can upgrade for not too much more of a diff from regular price, so I figure I’ll check it out and see. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet. Use PT, Cubase, other? Favorites? Advice?

Hey guys.......if you attend any show and would like to help me out by posting a review thatd be awesome. Im looking for contributions on any artist and any type of review. I need more live show reviews to add to the site and if you feel like writing a few paragraphs of the show you just saw....post it in here and ill post it on my site. Thanks