Just found this short article in the LA Times about Liz hiring a literary agent and possibly pursuing a writing career. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/soundboard...hairs-seco.html

It's kinda old news, but thanks for the new article.
At least she's gonna take up writing and not, say, drawing (because I was looking at the thread with her charcoal sketch in it the other day and was reminded of how drawing is not exactly her forte).

Yeah I know its been talked about alot on this forum for maybe the last year or so, Liz writing a novel, but obviously Liz is taking serious steps to actually pursue
this possible career path by hiring a literary agent. It may have been just me, but I thought that the whole novel thing may have been
more of a lark for her. Shit was I wrong.

drawing is not her forte?
jesus...
what an awful thing to say about someone who was supposed to be a visual artist?
what's wrong with her art anyway? not conventional enough? does it look all weird? does she color outside the lines? is her drawing not realistic enough?
ugh

^In honesty, Fub, I didn't really care for her art, either. I'm not saying she's not talented-it's just I've known/know so many artists & I'm just not really that crazy about her artwork.
I think that's what Marci probably meant, too.
The only person who does that kind've drawing style in that vein I really like is Raymond Pettibone.
I mean, I like Patti Smith, too, but I saw some of her visual art one time & I didn't think it was very good, either.

so you don't like her art and her music.

^I never said I didn't like earlier Liz Phair.
Frankly, no, I didn't care for her last couple records.
Maybe her newer work will have more of the qualities I admired about her earlier work.

God, fub, didn't mean to personally offend you with my opinion about Liz.


Simply put? It's. Not. Very. Good.


Actually, with any type of artistic medium, I pay very little attention to whether it is "conventional" or not. I'm able to find beauty and artistry in many forms, but not with Liz's drawings.


Yes, actually it does, because it's. Not. Very. Good.


Look, you're entitled to your own opinion, and so am I. My opinion? I don't like her drawings. I really don't think she's that good. She's talented in a lot of other areas, but like I said originally, drawing is not her forte.

you are entitled to your own opinion.

but what i'm saying is, get a better one.

^Is this new job really over stressing you lately, Fub?
You seem really unhappy lately.

what are you gonna ask me next? if i was molested by my father or something?

^OH, Please!
You just seem really edgy lately (as shown by above post).
Sorry you're in such a mood.

QUOTE (wooden and alone @ Oct 8 2008, 08:28 PM)

you are entitled to your own opinion.

but what i'm saying is, get a better one.

Wow...so much hostility. You'd think I just insulted your mother.

You know what fub? I'm tired of this shit. I'm tired of you jumping down my throat every fucking time I dare to express an opinion that you don't agree with. I'm sorry, I'm not like you. I have a life. My world doesn't revolve around Liz Phair. And I don't think that Liz is a god who can do no wrong.

I just don't understand why you get so personally offended when I (or anyone else) express an opinion of Liz that is less than 300% positive. This isn't the first time you've done it and I've held my tongue the other times but I'm tired of letting you get away with being a dick to me just because you disagree with what I have to say.

You know, I think this job of yours will be good for you. It will give you a chance to leave your house and discover a world that doesn't revolve around Liz Phair.

Put me on ignore, I'm sure you will. But you know what? I don't give a shit.

i wasn't that insulted actually. i was coasting, throwing away little bitchy remarks which come to me oh so easily.

but i see you took it really seriously. bravo.

i won't ignore you. i wanna see how low you can go.

I'm just surprised that Liz still sounds tentative when talking about her writing. For a while there, it sounded like she was more than halfway done with the first draft of a novel. Don't remember where that came from. But I do have confidence in her abilities.

As for her visual art: how many of her charcoal drawings have you seen, coolchick & katefan? Which ones, specifically? Specifically, what didn't you like about them? I have almost no visual art talent myself and don't really know how to tell if someone is. not. very. good. but I'd be interested to learn what criteria you consider when you decide whether someone can draw well or not.

For instance, I happen to really like the pen and ink doodle she did in the tour van in 1993 (you can see it at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/random.html). I think it's twisted and complex, and I've had a print of it hanging on my wall for a couple of years. Guests are always intrigued and impressed, although I don't know if they know any more about art than I do.

As for her charcoal drawings:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/slob.html
(cover artwork for the band The Lupins)

http://members.fortunecity.com/mesmerizing/page1018.html
(impromptu sketch for InStyle magazine, unfinished)

What specifically do you think she's doing wrong?

For what it's worth -- you've probably already guessed this, and it's probably not worth much -- I've always really liked what little of her art I've seen and wish I could've seen more of the stuff she did involving "diseased faces" in college, the stuff a friend of hers called "more than a little disturbing." And I'm obviously not saying that as someone who likes everything Liz Phair does.

I love that InStyle magazine picture.

Hi Jeremy,
If you read my reply to Fub, I think you will see that I said I thought Liz was talented, but that, in truth, I just don't care for her artwork. I've never worked as an art crtitic, but I did used to do some mutlimedia stuff (more performance art, though) when I was in HS/College. I have a lot of friends who went to art school & worked as apprentices (Like I think Liz Phair did-didn't she used to joke about that?).
There is a book of essays I read on the Chicago Art Scene that had an essay on Phair and Wicker Park-the name of that book is escaping me right now, but I will post it when I remember. The essay is interesting, though I will warn you it is critical of her.
The first link you posted doesn't work for me-it says it's been removed.
I actually remember having that Lupins album in the store once (at least I think I do, god I've seen a lot of albums)-the art is OK, but to me just looks like she was trying to mirror that Keane/Maio style that permeated a lot of the art in the early-mid 90's-trying to be "kitschy/gross/cool."
The portrait of the man with her in In Style is good, but frankly that photo is more centered on Liz looking sensual than really on the art, so it's difficult for me to really tell.
I don't think Liz is untalented as an sketch artist, but, frankly, I've known A LOT of people just locally in my own town/community that are really, really similar or honestly just a lot better. I think I mentioned that Pettibone was an artist in this similar vein that I do really like-he was very innovative in that style. Unlike her early Girlysound tapes which were fresh & innovative, I think her art style just isn't as unique. If it wasn't for her successful career as a musical artist, I doubt we'd be talking about Liz as a visual/sketch artist. When I first started to chat at this forum, Fub even did a cartoon signature that I thought was more fun/interesting/unique than any work I've seen by Phair. Sorry if you mad at me, dude-just my opinion.
In the early 90's when I was working at the record shop, I did work briefly with a guy who lived (& eventually moved back at the time) in Chicago and hung out in a bar that Phair frequented. He had a cocktail napkin that she doodled on for him or somebody, and it did look like her style so I believed him. He personally didn't care for her & in retrospect, I think he was actually trying to trade me the cocktail napkin for something in my collection he wanted, but I didn't really pick up the cue.
I will say I do think she has a pretty signature/autograph.
Hope this answers your question-I'll post that title of the book of essays when I can remember.

I like her drawings, but I am not schooled on what’s what. I just like em’.

Marci and Marlon – both of you to your rooms until you can apologize!!!

^I might have said this already, but LOVE that avatar!!

Aw shucks, I been hearin’ a lot aboot my new avatar. Glad that you like it indeedy. Iffin’ you ever wanna know where to get one just say the word and I will bring em’ to ya. You betchya!

^^You forgot to wink.

Here is the link: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/random.html

Thanks, Ken!
The book I was referencing when I was answering Jeremy's question is called NEO-BOHEMIA:ART AND COMMERCE IN THE POST-INDUSTRIAL CITY by Richard Lloyd. I made a point to go the library where I checked it out because it was bugging me I could not remember the title. It is interesting book of essays primarily on the Chicago art scene, including alot about Wicker Park in the 90's. There is a several page essay on Phair & her relation to the Chicago art scene.