Just kidding. This forum is a waste. Ugh.

Don't blame yourself, Jason. You've done all you can.

And you're still here whining like a stuck pig.

I know. It's just the forum that's the joke, not you babe. Wink.

ooh,

shall we take this elswhere?

*double wink*

So what would you change about it if you could? When did it start to suck? Can it be fixed? Do you have any real power to effect change? I like it overall, myself, but agree that it could be improved. Then again, this is the only forum I've ever participated in, so what the fuck do I know, right? Well, there was that time I needed advice on how to unfuck my carburetor, and subscribed to an automotive forum, but that's a whole other story. Anyhow, despite my monogamous relationship with this forum, I recognize that it falls somewhat short on several dimensions: 1) functional, 2) aesthetic, and 3) structural. Note that these categories do NOT take into account the content contributed by the members. Here I'm talking about the medium itself, not the messages. I suspect that you (Jason) are disgusted more by the content, and yes, some of it is garbage, but that's a subjective problem, and more a symptom than a disease.

Of these three major problem categories, number three is the most serious. The forum lacks structure. Yes, I know that forums are expected to self-organize by design, with threaded conversations imposing order, but four buckets (or troughs) obviously aren't sufficient to inhibit fossilization, whereby relevant posts end up buried along with the cruff, organized chiefly by the passing of time.

So what happens as a result?

Firstly, the same old shit gets posted because people don't bother to enact an archeological dig on what appears to be, at first glance, the Liz Phair Landfill. (I actually prefer to think of this as the Liz Phair Fossil Record, but it smells more like a landfill, so let's call it what it is.)

Secondly, because they failed to utilize the search function (which isn't very good), the locals go Liza Minelli on their ass, kick them in the nuts (or the box), and send them reeling back whence they came.

Thirdly, the cycle repeats again tomorrow, or next week.

But it's not all bad. We (and I use "we" loosely, myself not being here when the earth cooled and God created this forum on the 9th day, or whatever) have achieved some notable goals. Here's a quick report card:

1) Use the word "cunt" as every part of speech in the English language. A+
2) Same as #1, but with the word "bitch" and its manifold permutations. A+
3) Same as the above two, AND (for added difficulty) constrained only to signature lines. B+
4) Introduce newer fans to Phair's older work. B+
5) Promote her music in general. C+
6) Discuss obscure aspects of her music (e.g., Gunshy -- "Sea Monkey do Monkey..." I never got that until someone pointed it out.). B-
7) Proliferate Girly Sound. B
8) Vent. A+

Anyhow, back to the original question... what would you change?

You are probably the most hilarious being alive Acidmouse.

acidmouse keeps the forum alive, me thinks

The record company.

Yeah, that would be nice.

*Sigh*


(I love reading acidmouse's posts too.)

In my opinion the core problem with this site is the lack of new things from Liz herself. Very little news, few shows, no participation on her part. If her career were more active, the board would reflect that. I really think it's that simple. As some may recall from my infrequent posts, I'm one of Frank Black's uberfans. The site unofficially devoted to his work, frankblack.net, is almost always hopping, simply because he has been so active for almost twenty years now. I feel really fortunate that my favorite musician ever is constantly so active. We had a new double album in June, Pixies shows in Europe this summer, a twenty show solo acoustic tour through this past August, a tour with a new band just started up, rumors of a new Pixies album (demos mentioned at his recently discovered blog), monthly podcasts at fb.net (including unheard demos and interviews with band members), new interviews posted almost weekly, a meet Frank thing scheduled in Saskatoon, a Jack Daniels Whiskey contest for fifty or a hundred (I forget) UK fans to fly over for a show in Tennessee, two Pixies books in the last couple years, new boots at dimeadozen all the time. I mean, it’s been crazy for as long as I can remember. The Pixies reunion. I caught him solo in Sacramento on Aug 31 and have San Francisco tickets for Nov 15. His new band opened for both Tom Petty Berkeley shows last week, and before that he opened solo for about half a dozen Foo Fighters shows in the east. Two days ago in Nashville he did an in-store, a show, and then after the show popped in for a couple songs with Rich Gilbert's band (old member of his band and of early Throwing Muses fame and recent work with Tanya Donelly) all in the same day. Lots of pictures posted the day after gigs. Show reports from every show.

During the mid to late nineties his albums were selling about thirty thousand copies, but he was out there touring to the tune of a hundred plus gigs a year, driving all over the US and Europe in a van pulling a trailor. But Liz doesn’t do any of that. She could if it were in her nature to do so. She could play long tours, just by herself, making a few bucks and rebuilding her fan base. But we hear nothing from her. Frank pops in at fb.net for real-time conversations, to correct misimpressions, to tell us last week about how his new band would be playing with P.F. Sloan for a one-off unannounced appearance. He shows up at the board unannounced about once a month and “holds court”, as he puts. Has his own thread but also pops up elsewhere, and then disappears after an hour or so. The producer of his last two albums is a regular at the site, providing no end of details about who played what and when on the discs.

I could go on. I know Liz has a kid to take care of, but Frank has two of his own and two adopted. His entire family accompanied him in the van for his recent solo tour. His wife even posts sometimes, with pictures. That can be a little weird but it’s like it’s one big family. Anyway, as I said, love her but Liz just isn’t like that, and that, in my opinion, is why this board isn’t that animated. It’s not the people here or anything. It’s Liz. She’s reluctant.

Liz being reluctant and failing to be pro-active with her career? These sentiments are, IMHO, right on the money. I hate to say this and I PRAY that I'm wrong, but with the lambasting she's taken over the past 3-4 years from music snob critics and long time fans alike, I think she's just given up.

FWIW,
I really dig these forums, as they're very informative.

Actually, I've finally worked my way into "Exile In Guyville" just this past week from "Whitechocolatespaceegg" in 1998... to "Whip-smart" in 2002... to just now. Wow, did that take a while to find my favortie Liz Phair album. (And to think I've been living in Chicago [Lincoln Park, Bucktown and now Lakeview] off and on for the past 10 years.) All those shows I've missed!

Take it easy,
L&B

Acidic moderators, spammers, nonsensical posters who seem to post anything but are never deleted, old know it alls and a couple of other freaks for good measure... You're telling me.

you know what's more annoying that those you mentioned?
bitching about it

Chaos is creation. All things organize from total disorder. In other words, this site,like all others ,will find it's own structure, good or bad.

I too was hopin this was true, it'd be a great career boast!

Who here is still dissapointed about no nude Liz?

*proudly raises hand* Life is so full of disappointment.

i don't know why anyone would be. she's done all but shown her p-ssy. god, i hate those pics she did.

So do I, they are way trashy. Especially the american flag ones, what the hell was she thinking?

I think it was a cry for attention.

Alert the paparazzi.




They'll never come anyway.

One person's trash is another one's treasures. I loved her American flag pics.It made you feel so patriotic.

Same with those revolting Maxin pictures.

Liz Phair is smarter than over sex for sale, she warps sexuality and remakes it to suit her mood, at least that is how it used to be. Liz's clever manner of speech and raw intelligence are infinitely more sexy than those cheesy photos.

Actually,it's Stuff not Maxim. And shouldn't Liz know better than everyone else what she deems sexy and appropriate? And if you don't like the pictures don't look at them. That's the nifty thing about freedom of choice. Personally, I think guns and the glorification of violence are more vulgar than a woman's body wrapped in the American flag.

On this flag thing... Shitloads of celebs have clad themselves in the Star Spangled Banner. It's a long and sordid list, including such luminaries as: Richard Simmons, Evel Kneivel, Rosanne Barr, and pretty much every professional wrestler with a decent agent. So I would have to argue that, short of maybe crotch-flossing herself with the thing, Liz is doing Old Glory a HUGE favor -- doing her best to balance a historically lopsided equation.

(pauses to think)

Oh, who the fuck am I kidding? Vote YES on the Liz Phair Old Glory Crotch-Flossing referendum. It might well be our only hope to ever fully eradicate the mental picture of Richard Simmons and that God-forsaken, tortured bolt of star-spangled-spandex he foists upon the world in the form of a tank-top and shorts.

Plus it would make a nice segment for a Bars of the Bed video, or maybe even Hello Sailor, if done tastefully, of course, in slo-mo, with a couple fog machines singing back-up.

Very artsy.

lol....
how can I follow acidmouse ?? You crack me up, man.

Oh, and I have to say, I'm actually RELIEVED that this turned out to not be true. Liz... where have you gone wrong, my love. You used to be such a transgressive force in female imagery... now you've just aquiesced like the rest of the girls who seemed hell-bent on being known first and formost for their anatomy

Stuff, even better (I actually own this copy, fricken Nicole Ritchie is on the cover, il disgust..)

Seems like you're the one crying for attention.

Don't you have a rejection letter from Berkeley to appeal or something?

I think we spend way too much time overanalysing what Liz does. Back in 1994, she appeared on the cover of Rolling Stone, and got all sorts of shit b/c she appeared in a silk negligee, barefoot. Even then her "fans" said she was selling out, or selling her sexuality. Her response is that she wore that for the shoot b/c she thought she looked pretty in it. It was really that simple. And she looked great in it.

Liz likes looking good. She likes that men and women think she is sexy. Its always been part of her music and her "message" that its OK for women to have fantasies and be sexual and just want it - if there was a point to HWC besides writing a song that would never, not once, be played on radio, it was that it was OK for a woman to think like that, and to say it - as she told one interviewer who happened to be gay - that she was saying something as a straight woman that gay men would say, b/c women can have those same earthy desires.

I really don't know what we want from her. When Whipsmart came out, we said she sold out. Same with Whitechoc., and each album since. She doesn't mean to stand for anything except that women (and men) should be allowed to do and feel and say what they want - and those thoughts are connected to where the woman is in her life, whether a girl just out of college, a young woman looking for meaning in a relationship, or an adult woman who balances work and urges and a son.

I think the flag pics were sexy and cute. The mesh ones were cheesy b/c she was just put against a door in a hotel room, but she looked great. I vote a big yes for flag crotch-flossing, if that is what she wants to do - I know I'd enjoy it. I liked those pics a lot more than some of the jukebox ones. A lot of her music I love, some of it not so much - both early and late stuff - but could I expect more from her or any artist? I know that her music is always unique and her message always her own - that's rare enough - that she is so attractive and likes being enticing is part of her charm. No apologies needed, far as I'm concerned. I get things from Liz's music and personality that I don't get from any other performing artist, and I love her for it.

Below is a picture of Liz at Avalon last summer in Boston. The story behind the pic of her stretching is that her silk top was pretty clingy and when she did that, the crowd went crazy - which she intended and enjoyed. Plus a couple from one of her acoustic shows last summer in Boston.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

And I'll second that also. Extremely well said.

I've been a lurker for a little while....but this message prompted me to register and speak out.

I'm a member of a few boards similiar to this...and I have to say that ALL the ones that REALLY have alot of activity, are the ones where the artist has a relationship with the fans, and gets involved with the OL community. All the other sites....like this one....where the artist is not involved, doesn't keep fans up to speed on the recent "goings on".....even if its just writing and studio updates....tend to die a quick death.

I keep coming back from time to time *hoping* against all hopes that we're going to SOME kind of announcement of what's going on.....but the last update on the front page is from almost a year ago!!! That don't cut it. In today's musical enviornment, if you don't maintain some kind of personal relationship with the fans (and, of course, that's impossible in the absolute sense....but relatively speaking) the infactuation WILL wane.

And it's not just about 'change in direction' or other career moves that could be detrimental. (sexy poses in magazines....questionable musical choices...etc...etc) I've seen other artists do similiar things....(more along the musical lines)....but because they are INVOLVED with their fan base, the interest is maintained. They may even get a chance to give convincing arguements to defend their musical choices face to face with those who matter most. Sometimes winning some converts.....but, at the very least, earning the respect of those who maybe don't care for the most recent change in direction.

And we're not talking about "yes men" or "fanboys".....people who are allowed to express their discontent with respect....but who are also willing to listen to the artists POV and maybe be willing to "be won over".

But it all comes down to artist involvement...

I have some more interesting thoughts on fan POV....but maybe I'll save that for another post....